CR 2006/27
International Court Cour internationale
of Justice de Justice
THHEAGUE LAAYE
YEAR 2006
Public sitting
held on Monday 27 March 2006 2006, at 10 a.m., at the Peace Palace,
President Higgins presiding,
in the case concerning the Application of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment
of the Crime of Genocide (Bosnia and Herzegovina v. Serbia and Montenegro)
________________
VERBATIM RECORD
________________
ANNÉE 2006
Audience publique
tenue le lundi 27 mars 2006, à 10 heures, au Palais de la Paix,
sous la présidence de Mme Higgins, président,
en l’affaire relative à l’Application de la convention pour la prévention et la répression du
crime de génocide (Bosnie-Herzégovine c. Serbie-et-Monténégro)
____________________
COMPTE RENDU
____________________ - 2 -
Present: Presieigtgins
Vice-Prsi-Kntasawneh
Ranjevaudges
Shi
Koroma
Parra-Aranguren
Owada
Simma
Tomka
Abraham
Keith
Sepúlveda
Bennouna
Judges ad hoc Mahiou
Kre ća
Couevrisrar
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ - 3 -
Présents : Mme Higgins,président
Al-K.vsce-prh,ident
RaMjev.
Shi
Koroma
Parra-Aranguren
Owada
Simma
Tomka
Abraham
Keith
Sepúlveda
Bjnnosuna,
MaMhou.,
Kre ća, juges ad hoc
Cgoefferr,
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯ - 4 -
The Government of Bosnia and Herzegovina is represented by:
Mr. Sakib Softić,
as Agent;
Mr. Phon van den Biesen, Attorney at Law, Amsterdam,
as Deputy Agent;
Mr.Alain Pellet, Professor at the University of ParisX-Nanterre, Member and former Chairman of
the International Law Commission of the United Nations,
Mr. Thomas M. Franck, Professor of Law Emeritus, New York University School of Law,
Ms Brigitte Stern, Professor at the University of Paris I,
Mr. Luigi Condorelli, Professor at the Facultyof Law of the University of Florence,
Ms Magda Karagiannakis, B.Ec, LL.B, LL.M.,Barrister at Law, Melbourne, Australia,
Ms Joanna Korner, Q.C.,Barrister at Law, London,
Ms Laura Dauban, LL.B (Hons),
as Counsel and Advocates;
Mr. Morten Torkildsen, BSc, MSc, Tork ildsen Granskin og Rådgivning, Norway,
as Expert Counsel and Advocate;
H.E. Mr. Fuad Šabeta, Ambassadorof Bosnia and Herzegovina to the Kingdom of the Netherlands,
Mr. Wim Muller, LL.M, M.A.,
Mr. Mauro Barelli, LL.M (University of Bristol),
Mr. Ermin Sarajlija, LL.M,
Mr. Amir Bajrić, LL.M,
Ms Amra Mehmedić, LL.M,
Mr. Antoine Ollivier, Temporary Lecturer and Research Assistant, University of Paris X-Nanterre, - 5 -
Le Gouvernement de la Bosnie-Herzégovine est représenté par :
M. Sakib Softić,
coagment;
M. Phon van den Biesen, avocat, Amsterdam,
comme agent adjoint;
M. Alain Pellet, professeur à l’Université de ParisX-Nanterre, membre et ancien président de la
Commission du droit international des Nations Unies,
M. Thomas M. Franck, professeur émérite à lafaculté de droit de l’Université de New York,
Mme Brigitte Stern, professeur à l’Université de Paris I,
M. Luigi Condorelli, professeur à la fact de droit de l’Université de Florence,
Mme Magda Karagiannakis, B.Ec., LL.B., LL.M.,Barrister at Law, Melbourne (Australie),
Mme Joanna Korner, Q.C.,Barrister at Law, Londres,
Mme Laura Dauban, LL.B. (Hons),
comme conseils et avocats;
M. Morten Torkildsen, BSc., MSc., Tork ildsen Granskin og Rådgivning, Norvège,
comme conseil-expert et avocat;
S. Exc. M. Fuad Šabeta, ambassadeur de Bosn ie-Herzégovine auprès duRoyaume des Pays-Bas,
M. Wim Muller, LL.M., M.A.,
M. Mauro Barelli, LL.M. (Université de Bristol),
M. Ermin Sarajlija, LL.M.,
M. Amir Bajrić, LL.M.,
Mme Amra Mehmedić, LL.M.,
M. Antoine Ollivier, attaché temporaire d’ense ignement et de recher che à l’Université de
Paris X-Nanterre, - 6 -
Ms Isabelle Moulier, Research Student in International Law, University of Paris I,
Mr. Paolo Palchetti, Associate Professor at the University of Macerata (Italy),
as Counsel.
The Government of Serbia and Montenegro is represented by:
Mr. Radoslav Stojanović, S.J.D., Head of the Law Council of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of
Serbia and Montenegro, Professor at the Belgrade University School of Law,
as Agent;
Mr. Saša Obradović, First Counsellor of the Embassy of Serbia and Montenegro in the Kingdom of
the Netherlands,
Mr. Vladimir Cvetković, Second Secretary of the Embassy of Serbia and Montenegro in the
Kingdom of the Netherlands,
as Co-Agents;
Mr.Tibor Varady, S.J.D. (Harvard), Professor of Law at the Central European University,
Budapest and Emory University, Atlanta,
Mr. Ian Brownlie, C.B.E., Q.C., F.B.A., Member of the International Law Commission, member of
the English Bar, Distinguished Fellow of the All Souls College, Oxford,
Mr. Xavier de Roux, Master in law, avocat à la cour, Paris,
Ms Nataša Fauveau-Ivanović, avocat à la cour, Paris and member of the Council of the
International Criminal Bar,
Mr. Andreas Zimmermann, LL.M. (Harvard), Professor of Law at the University of Kiel, Director
of the Walther-Schücking Institute,
Mr. Vladimir Djerić, LL.M. (Michigan), Attorney at Law, Mikijelj, Jankovi ć & Bogdanovi ć,
Belgrade, and President of the International Law Association of Serbia and Montenegro,
Mr. Igor Olujić, Attorney at Law, Belgrade,
as Counsel and Advocates;
Ms Sanja Djajić, S.J.D., Associate Professor at the Novi Sad University School of Law,
Ms Ivana Mroz, LL.M. (Indianapolis),
Mr. Svetislav Rabrenović, Expert-associate at the Office of th e Prosecutor for War Crimes of the
Republic of Serbia, - 7 -
Mme Isabelle Moulier, doctorante en droit international à l’Université de Paris I,
M. Paolo Palchetti, professeur associé à l’Université de Macerata (Italie),
cocomnseils.
Le Gouvernement de la Serbie-et-Monténégro est représenté par :
M. Radoslav Stojanović, S.J.D., chef du conseil juridique du ministère des affaires étrangères de la
Serbie-et-Monténégro, professeur à la faculté de droit de l’Université de Belgrade,
coagment;
M. Saša Obradovi ć, premier conseiller à l’ambassade de Serbie-et-Monténégro au Royaume des
Pays-Bas,
M. Vladimir Cvetković, deuxième secrétaire à l’ambassade de Serbie-et-Monténégro au Royaume
des Pays-Bas,
comme coagents;
M. Tibor Varady, S.J.D. (Harvard), professeur de droit à l’Université d’Europe centrale de
Budapest et à l’Université Emory d’Atlanta,
M. Ian Brownlie, C.B.E., Q.C., F.B.A., membre de la Commission du droit international, membre
du barreau d’Angleterre, Distinguished Fellow au All Souls College, Oxford,
M. Xavier de Roux, maîtrise de droit, avocat à la cour, Paris,
Mme Nataša Fauveau-Ivanovi ć, avocat à la cour, Paris, et membre du conseil du barreau pénal
international,
M. Andreas Zimmermann, LL.M. (Harvard), professeur de droit à l’Université de Kiel, directeur de
l’Institut Walther-Schücking,
M. Vladimir Djeri ć, LL.M. (Michigan), avocat, cabinet Mikijelj, Jankovi ć & Bogdanovi ć,
Belgrade, et président de l’association de droit international de la Serbie-et-Monténégro,
M. Igor Olujić, avocat, Belgrade,
comme conseils et avocats;
Mme Sanja Djajić, S.J.D, professeur associé à la faculté de droit de l’Université de Novi Sad,
Mme Ivana Mroz, LL.M. (Indianapolis),
M. Svetislav Rabrenovi ć, expert-associé au bureau du procureur pour les crimes de guerre de la
République de Serbie, - 8 -
Mr. Aleksandar Djurdjić, LL.M., First Secretary at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Serbia and
Montenegro,
Mr. Miloš Jastrebić, Second Secretary at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Serbia and Montenegro,
Mr. Christian J. Tams, LL.M. PhD. (Cambridge), Walther-Schücking Institute, University of Kiel,
Ms Dina Dobrkovic, LL.B.,
as Assistants. - 9 -
M. Aleksandar Djurdji ć, LL.M., premier secrétaire au ministère des affaires étrangères de la
Serbie-et-Monténégro,
M. Miloš Jastrebi ć, deuxième secrétaire au ministère des affaires étrangères de la
Serbie-et-Monténégro,
M. Christian J. Tams, LL.M., PhD. (Cambridge), Institut Walther-Schücking, Université de Kiel,
Mme Dina Dobrkovic, LL.B.,
comme assistants. - 10 -
The PRESIDENT: Please be seated. The sitting is now open.
Today, the Court will hear the evidence of the next witness called by Serbia and
Montenegro, Mr. Dušan Mihajlović. The witness may be brought into court.
[Witness enters and takes his place at the rostrum]
I call upon Mr. Mihajlovi ć to make the solemn declaration for witnesses as set down in
Article 64 (a), of the Rules of Court.
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: I solemnly declare upon my honour and
conscience that I will speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
The PRESIDENT: Thank you. I would like to remind the witness to pause regularly in
order to allow for the consecutive interpretation into English. I now give the floor to Mr. Brownlie
to begin his examination of the witness.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Mihajlovi ć, would you give your
opening statement to the Court, please.
MMIH.AJLOVI Ć [interprétation du serbe] : Je suis né en 1948 à Valjevo en Serbie. J’ai eu
mon diplôme de la faculté de droit de BelgradeDans ma jeunesse j’étais un boy-scout actif et le
fondateur des jeunes chercheurs. En 1978, je su is devenu le suppléant du ma ire de la municipalité
de Valjevo et en 1980, le président du conseil munici pal. Je l’ai été jusqu’en 1986, où j’ai été élu
maire de Valjevo. La ville de Valjevo était jumelée avec les villes de toutes les républiques dont la
République fédérative socialiste de Yougoslavie. En Bosnie-Her zégovine la ville jumelée a été
Jajce. C’est ainsi que j’ai eu l’occasion de me fa miliariser avec la situation dans cette république,
où je me suis fait de nombreux amis de tous les trois peuples : musulmans, serbes et croates. J’ai
signé personnellement l’accord d’amitié avec la ville israélienne Rehovot et la ville
néerlandaiseSittard dans l’espoir que nous nousretrouverions bientôt dans la maison commune
européenne. Maire efficace de la ville de Valjevo, j’ai été élu, vers la fin de 1989, vice-président
du premier Gouvernement de transition de la Républ ique de Serbie dont la mission a été de mettre
en Œuvre les réformes du système politique et économique. Il relevait de nos ressorts
l’administration d’Etat et les questions juridiquAu début de l’année1990, j’ai organisé une - 11 -
table ronde du pouvoir et de l’opposition où nous avons harmonisé les projets de loi sur les partis et
sur les élections et créé ainsi les conditions pour un système pluraliste en Serbie. Je peux affirmer
que le gouvernement entier a été orienté vers les réformes et que nous construisions un système
nouveau d’économie de marché et de démocratie parl ementaire pluraliste en Serbie que je voyais
déjà en l’époque, ensemble avec les autres républiques de Yougoslavie, dans l’Union européenne.
J’en parlais publiquement et je persuadais de nombreux diplomates avec lesquels j’ai eu des
contacts de ces intentions parce que, dans le gouvernement, je couvrais ce ressort également. Je me
souviens qu’on en parlait spécialement en Isr aël, à l’occasion de la visite du président du
gouvernement, le docteurStankoRadmilovi ć, parce que nous voulions qu’Israël soutînt la Serbie
en transition. Le Gouvernement de la Serbie coopérait normalement avec les gouvernements des
autres républiques de même qu’avec le gouvernement fédéral. A l’époque, vers la fin de 1989 et au
début de 1990, il y avait des troubles au Kosovo et Metokia. Là-bas, l’ordre était maintenu par
l’unité du ministère de l’intérieur fédéral, que constituaient les éléments des polices de toutes les
républiques. C’était ici que j’ai visité les élém ents de ce détachement fé déral stationné à Ajvalija,
près de Priština ensemble avec le vice-président du gouvernement fédéral ŽivkoPregl, qui est
slovène. Il a tenu un discours aux éléments de la co mpagnie slovène et leur a dit qu’il ne défendait
pas seulement la paix au Kosovo et Metokia et en Serbie, mais qu’au Kosovo et Metokia, il
défendait également la Slovénie. Pendant l’ensem ble des mes activités dans la municipalité de
Valjevo et dans le Gouvernement de la République de Serbie, je n’ ai jamais participé ou entendu
que quelqu’un autre l’avait fait dans les prép aratifs pour de quelconques activités de guerre ou
quelconques violences à l’encontre des minorités nationales en Serbie ou dans d’autres républiques.
Le cours des réformes du gouvernement s’écartait du changement de la politique que Miloševi ć
avait fait vers le milieu de l’année1990 en créan t le SPS et en conservant la catégorie de la
propriété socialisée dans la nouvelle Constitution de la Serbie. Les changements, d’après mon
estimation, sont intervenus après que Miloševi ć eut compris que ses efforts de conserver la
Yougoslavie où il aurait tenu le rôle d’un nouveau Tito ne bénéficiaient pas du soutien des
Slovènes et des Croates. L’échec des réformes et la montée du nationalisme sont intervenus non
seulement en Serbie mais également dans les autr es républiques. Mais, dans chacune d’elles, ça a
été un processus authentique, au fond, indépendant des événements dans les autres Républiques. - 12 -
Ceci est illustré le mieux par le fait qu’uniqueme nt dans l’espace ethnique serbe il n’y a pas eu de
création de parti politique homogène sur la base nationale, comme ça a été le cas avec leSDA
(parti de l’action démocratique) qui a rassemblé les Musulmans et avec le HDZ (l’union
démocratique croate) qui a rassemblé les Croates, qui déployaient leurs activités sur l’ensemble du
territoire de l’ex-République fédérative socia liste de Yougoslavie, partout où vivaient les
ressortissants de leurs nations respectives. D’au tre part, les Serbes en Bosnie-Herzégovine et en
Croatie n’avaient jamais leur propre parti indépendant qui aurait eu une direction commune et leur
centrale n’a jamais été à Belgrade. En désaccord avec le changement du cours de la politique de
Milošević, j’ai rejoint les jeunes qui ont créé l’un des premiers partis politiques de Serbie: la
nouvelle démocratie. L’essentiel de son action politique était la modernisation de la Serbie et son
intégration dans l’Union européenne et dans l’OTAN, ensuite la politique contre la guerre ferme et
les efforts pour que tous les problèmes soient ré glés de manière pacifique, démocratique et par les
moyens politiques. La nouvelle démocratie a été fermement opposée au nationalisme et à sa
prolifération sur le territoire de l’ex-Yougoslavie. C’est pourquoi nous n’avons eu aucun contact
avec les partis organisés sur la base nationale ni en Serbie, ni dans les autres Républiques, y
compris les partis politiques en Bosnie-Herzégovine et en Croatie. Je trouve que le conflit de
Bosnie-Herzégovine avait ses causes sur place et qu’ il était conséquence des aspirations nationales
prononcées des trois peuples constitutifs qui vivaie nt en Bosnie-Herzégovine. Je sais que, peu
après le commencement du conflit, pendant le mo is de mai1992, la JNA a retiré ses troupes du
territoire de Bosnie-Herzégovine et qu’après ce retrait, d’après les données auxquelles j’avais
accès, la Serbie, voire la République fédérale de Yougoslavie, n’a pas participé dans le conflit sur
le territoire de Bosnie-Herzégovine.
En 1993, il y a eu une détérioration grave d es relations entre la Republika Srpska et la
République fédérale de Yougoslavie. Le divorce définitif entre la Republika Srpska et la
République fédérale de Yougoslavi e est intervenu après que l’Asse mblée de la Republika Srpska
eut refusé en mai1993 le plan Vance-Owen, dont l’acceptation était prônée par la République
fédérale de Yougoslavie. Suite à cet événement la République fédérale de Yougoslavie inflige les
sanctions à la Republika Srpska. La décision des dirigeants de Pale a été complètement autonome
et opposée complètement aux objectifs pour lesquels s’employait la Répu blique fédérale de - 13 -
Yougoslavie. Et l’on doit conclure de cela que la Republika Srpska était autonome dans la prise de
ses décisions, notamment du fait qu’en cette occasi on les représentants de la Republika Srpska ont
refusé la proposition de Slobodan Miloševi ć et de Dobrica Ćosić qui passaient pour les autorités
suprêmes dans le peuple serbe, de même que la proposition du premier ministre de la Grèce,
M.Mitsotakis. Compte tenu de cette politique de paix du Gouvernement de Serbie, la nouvelle
démocratie a accepté vers la fin de 1993 l’ invitation du SPS à constitu er un gouvernement de
l’unité nationale et, jusqu’à l’année 1997, la nou velle démocratie a partic ipé au Gouvernement de
la République de Serbie. La première c ondition fondamentale de l’entrée de la nouvelle
démocratie dans le gouvernement a été la continua tion conséquente et responsable de la politique
de paix, ensuite la levée des sanctions internationales et la coopération avec la communauté
internationale, et aussi le soutien au progra mme des réformes économiques, le programme dit
de Avramović, par lequel la fin a été mise à l’hyperinflati on et le dinar librement convertible a été
introduit. Je peux confirmer qu’à l’époque où la nouvelle démocratie était dans le Gouvernement
de la République de Serbie, les relations avec la Republika Srpska étaient à un niveau extrêmement
bas et ne dépassaient pas l’acheminement occasionnel de l’aide humanitaire, et qu’en 1994 était
introduit et mis en Œuvre le blocus sur la Drina qui était supervisé par les observateurs étrangers.
Pendant cette période, dans l’Assemblée de la République de Serbie, ni moi ni les autres
représentants de la nouvelle démocratie ne r ecevions d’informations sur ce qui se passait en
Bosnie-Herzégovine. Ces questions n’étaient jamais discutées pas plus que les décisions n’étaient
prises à leur sujet pendant les sessions du Gouver nement de la République de Serbie. Le
Gouvernement de Serbie s’occupait de nombre de problèmes intérieurs de la Serbie et mettait en
Œuvre la politique dont la mission principale ⎯comme je l’ai déjà dit ⎯ était la levée des
sanctions et la normalisation des rapports économiqu es dans notre pays. La nouvelle démocratie a
quitté le Gouvernement de Serbie en 1997 après la constitution de la coalition du SPS avec le parti
radical serbe et avec le JUL (l ’union gauche yougoslave) et après la nouvelle aggravation des
relations de la République fédérale de Yougoslavie avec le monde, qui s’est confirmée plus tard par
le règlement inapproprié de la crise au Kosovo et Metokia. Pendant la période de 1997 à 2000, la
nouvelle démocratie était dans l’opposition. Apr ès les changements du 5 octobre 2000, pendant la
période de 2001 à 2003, j’étais nommé vice-pré sident du Gouvernement de la République de - 14 -
Serbie et ministre de l’intérieur au Gouvernement de la République de Serbie. A l’époque où j’ai
commencé à exercer cette fonction, dans le cadre du ministère de l’intérieur de la République de
Serbie, il n’y avait pas de relation particulire avec la Republika Srpska. A ce propos, en
plaisantant, j’ai dit une fois que nos relationsétaient meilleures avec la police de la Hongrie
qu’avec nos collègues de Republika Srpska. Durant ma fonction de ministre avait commencé aussi
la coopération avec le Tribunal pénal international pour l’ex-Y ougoslavie. Au fil de cette
coopération, un grand nombre de personnes accusées d es crimes commis pendant le conflit sur le
territoire de l’ex-Yougoslavie, et parmi ces no mbreuses personnes qui ont été accusées pour les
crimes commis pendant la guerre en Bosnie-Her zégovine, soit ont été arrêtées, soit se sont rendues
de leur propre gré au Tribunal de LaHaye. Parm i ces personnes figurait l’ancien président de la
République fédérale de Y ougoslavie, SlobodanMiloševi ć, que nous avons arrêté et livré à
La Haye. Merci de votre attention.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Madam President, I would now ask a few questions. I am conscious of
the time factor.
The PRESIDENT: There is no problem on that, we have been advised as to your needs.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Thank you very much. Mr. Mihajlović, could I ask you just to remind the
Court which periods you formed part of the Government; those periods when you held government
office?
MIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I was the Vice-President of the
Republican Government twice: the first time from the end of 1989 until the end of 1990 and the
second time from the year 2001 until 2003. Otherwise the political party that I was President of,
New Democracy, formed part of the Government from 1993 to 1997, but I personally held no
office in that Government in that period.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Thank you. Can you tell the Court, Mr. Mihajlovi ć, whether during your
time in government office the idea of a Greater Serbia was proposed or supported in any way? - 15 -
MMIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : No, the idea of a Greater Serbia was
never proposed, never considered, nor ever supporte d by either the Government or any other body
of the Republic of Serbia.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Thank you. Would you tell the Court whether the concept of Greater
Serbia was supported by Mr. Milošević?
MMIH.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : No, Mr.Miloševi ć never advocated the
idea of a Greater Serbia; he was a staunch champion of Yugoslavia and, in fact, retained that name
for the State, even when the State was reduced to Serbia and Montenegro.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Thank you. Mr. Mihajlovi ć, when in 1995 your party was part of the
Government and the Dayton Agreement was signed, could you explain the role of the FRY
delegation?
MMIH.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: The peace conference in Dayton was of
paramount importance, not only because it secured peace but because it also resolved all disputable
issues which emanated as a resu lt of the conflict in Bosnia and Herzegovina. What makes the
Dayton Accords especially important is the fact that in it was rightly and properly characterized the
nature of the conflict in Bosnia and Herzena. The Dayton Accords never used the word
“aggression” or the word “genocide”, the only word wh ich is used in them is “conflicts”. Thereby
a foundation was created for the reconciliation of th e three peoples and for durable peace in these
areas. The delegation of the Federa l Republic of Yugoslavia and Miloševi ć personally contributed
to the success of the Dayton conference by acng, by agreeing to, a series of compromises,
including the cession of parts of territory re under the control of the Bosnian Serbs. I
suppose that had Karadžić been in his place that he would not have agreed to such concessions.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Thank you very mu ch. Madam President, Mr.Mihajlović is now
available for cross-examination.
The PRESIDENT: Thank you, Mr. Brownlie. I give the floor to Ms Korner for
cross-examination.
Ms KORNER: Mr. Mihajlović, you were not at Dayton, were you?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, I was not. - 16 -
Ms KORNER: I want to go back to what you told us about your political career, please. You
told us that you were the Vice-President first transitional Government of Serbia between
1989 and 1990. Is that right?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: That is right.
Ms KORNER: Were you asked by Miloševi ć if you would actually take on the task of
composing the Serbian Government?
MI. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : No, I was the Vice-President of that
Government.
Ms KORNER: One of the people who was de livered, I think, by you, personally, to
TheHague during the course of your time of office later, after 2000, was ć. That iski
right, is it not?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Admiral Jokić voluntarily surrendered to
The Hague and I personally escorted him as far as the Amsterdam airport.
Ms KORNER: Admiral Joki ć was charged in relation to the events in Dubrovnik, was he
not?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Yes, but that had nothing whatsoever to
do with his role in the Government. It waslly after retirement that he was reactivated as a
member of the JNA (Yugoslav People’s Army) and he was held answerable for those events as a
member of the JNA and not as a member of Government.
Ms KORNER: Mr. Mihajlovi ć, can I just ask you to concentrate on this: I have a limited
amount of time to ask you questions. If youcould you answer my questions without giving
further detail. Admiral Joki ć in fact pleaded guilty and subsequently gave evidence, did he not, at
the trial of Strugar, who was also charged with the events at Dubrovnik? That is right, is it not?
MMI.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I have no comment on court judgments
and Court procedures.
Ms KORNER: I am asking you whether you knew that Admiral Jokć eventually pleaded
guilty and gave evidence in the trial against Struga r. There are two questions: first, did you know
that he pleaded guilty? Second, that he gave evidence? - 17 -
MMIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : Admiral Joki ć is a personal friend of
mine and I cannot be objective in his regard. I cannot help you there.
Ms KORNER: I am sorry, why can you not tell me whether you knew about it?
MIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I do not see how Admiral Jć is
relevant to the topic.
Ms KORNER: Believe you me, if I am asking you irrelevant questions, I will be stopped.
The reason I am asking you about this, Mr. Mihajlovi ć, is that he gave some evidence about your
role. Were you aware of this?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No.
Ms KORNER: So, you never followed the tria l of Strugar or listened to anything that
Mr. Jokić had to say?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, I did not.
Ms KORNER: Can you think, howeve r, from your knowledge of Admiral Joki ć and from
your own part in the events you have described, why he should have said that you were given the
mandate of composing the Serbian Government by Slobodan Milošević?
MIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I believe that you are confusing two
things. It is quite true that I proposed Admiral Joki ć, whom I considered to be one of the cleverest
officers of the then JNA, for the post of Minister of Defence. I only proposed him for the Minister
of Defence. I was not the Prime Minister designate, mind you. So that proposal of mine was
accepted and Admiral Joki ć was indeed installed as Minister of Defence for a while, but was
subsequently replaced by Milošević: he was retired. As I said before, he was later reactivated as a
member of the JNA and took over as Commander of the zone down there, where the previous
Commander had been killed. That is how he goinvolved in the events which took place in the
Dubrovnik conflict.
Ms KORNER: Can you just, please, concentrate on one simple point: what I am asking
you ⎯ and I am quoting from what he said ⎯ is why he should have said that you were given the
mandate of composing the Government in 1989 and when the Government was formed you became
the first Deputy Prime Minister. - 18 -
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Well, these are easily verifiable facts. It
is known who the Prime Minister designate at the time was, and I believć wast Admiral Joki
referring to the fact that I had personally proposed him for the post of Minister of Defence, which
proposal was later accepted, and which post he indeed filled.
Ms KORNER: All right. I am going to move on, because I think we have spent too much
time. Can I just ask, did you say that you proposed Ać as the Defence Minister to
Milošević?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : To the Prime Minister designate who
took him as a member of his Government, and that was Dr. Stanko Radmilović.
MsKORNER: All right. I want to move please to another topic. You were the
Vice-President between 1989 and 1990. did you do, and could you tell us, please very
briefly, between 1990 and 1993?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : Well, I was in opposition. I was the
opposition.
Ms KORNER: I’m sure you were, but were you still a Deputy?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, not at that time.
Ms KORNER: But you became a Deputy again in 1993, didn’t you?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, I was not a Deputy in parliament. I
became one after the 1993 elections.
Ms KORNER: Yes, I am sorry, that is what I just asked you. In 1993, you became one?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: That is right.
Ms KORNER: And also Deputy Prime Minister?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, as I said, I personally was not part of
that Government. It was only in 2001 ths again elected to the Cabinet, and became a
member of the Cabinet at that time.
MsKORNER: So you weren’t Vi ce-President of the Govern⎯ or Deputy Prime
Minister ⎯ between 1993 and 1996 or 1997?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No. I wasn’t. - 19 -
Ms KORNER: Now, you told the Court in yo ur prepared statement that you can assure the
Court that after the withdrawal of the JNA from Bo snia in 1992, in May, Serbia and the Federal
Republic of Yugoslavia took no part at all in the conflict.
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : Yes I said so, but I said: according to
data accessible to me, available to me. onsider myself to be one of the better informed
citizens of Serbia.
Ms KORNER: Can I take it that the data, that you were supplied with then, did not tell you
anything about the joint operations that were conducted by the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and
the troops of the Bosnian Serb army and also the Republic of Serb Krajina?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: That is exactly so.
Ms KORNER: Can I take it that the data th at you looked at told you nothing about the 30th
and 40th Personnel Centres which were set up by Mr. Lilić?
Mr. BROWNLIE: I do hesitate to intervene. I would like her to clarify what she means by
the “data that has been supplied” to the witness. Thank you.
The PRESIDENT: Yes, I think that would be helpful. If you could that.
Ms KORNER: I am using the expression he used. He said: “the data that was available to
him”.
The PRESIDENT: It would be useful for the Court to understand that reference.
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : It was all the data that was available to
both the National Assembly and the Government of the Republic of Serbia, both public and secret.
MsKORNER: And that did not tell you abot the payment and supplies that the Federal
Republic of Yugoslavia provided to the Republika Srpska during the period that we are discussing?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : Neither I, nor any Deputy, nor any
activist of the party that I belonged to had any information about that.
Ms KORNER: How did you get access to secret data?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: First of all I had access to such data as a
member of Government, initially. And when just the party “New Democracy” was a member of
that Government, I as the President of trty, was privy to such information which was
conveyed to me by members of my party who were in the Government. And later on, as the - 20 -
Vice-President of the Government and especially th e Minister of the Interior, I had access to such
data, and I had access to such data for the past period as well.
MsKORNER: Finally, on this topic of your knowledge. You’ve told us that after the
Assembly meeting where the Bosnian Serbs reject ed the Vance-Owen Plan, only humanitarian aid
was provided to Republika Srpska. In 1994, you were in government, were you not?
MMI.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Yes, I was. Not me personally, but my
party.
Ms KORNER: So, your access to data, both public and secret did not disclose to you that in
1994, for example, a great deal of ammunition and weaponry was provided by the Federal Republic
of Yugoslavia to the Drina corps, for example?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, I have no such data.
Ms KORNER: I want to move to a different t opic now, and that is the question of Sarajevo.
In June 1995, were you interviewe d for television news? I put it to you, but I am sure you were
interviewed on many occasions. Did you talk abou t a Muslim offensive around Sarajevo, which is
under the veil of liberation of humanitarian roads and the de-blockade of Sarajevo?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Well, I did give countless interviews and
if I spoke about Sarajevo as I was, inple, resolutely against the war andipso facto,
against the siege of Sarajevo, in all my statemen ts I spoke along those lines and I always insisted
that there was a need to stop the war and to stop the war events in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Ms KORNER: Yes, it is a simple point. You agree, as you have just said, there was a siege
of Sarajevo being conducted by the Bosnian Serbs?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Well, it is a generally known fact that for
a while Sarajevo was under a blockade.
Ms KORNER: Can I move now, please, to what yo u did as Minister of the Interior in 2001.
I think in 2001, you, as the Interior Minister announced the formation of the special police unit.
MI. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : Yes, we set up the gendarmerie as a
special police formation.
Ms KORNER: And that took in, did it not, at used to be called the “special operations
unit”, the JSO? - 21 -
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, that was at that time a separate unit
of the State security service.
Ms KORNER: Yes, but your new unit, as it were, took over the old unit and the people in it,
did it not?
MMI.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : That will require a lengthy explanation
because after the murder of the Prime Minister, Mr.Dć, this unit was disbanded, it was
dismantled.
Ms KORNER: Yes, I know it was, but I am talking about when you formed the new unit in
2001. Did the officers of that new unit include a man generally known as Legija?
MI. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : No, because actually when I became
Interior Minister, I inherited Legija asnder of the JSO but he was never appointed a
commander of the gendarmerie, nor was he a member of the police of Serbia.
Ms KORNER: So, if you gave an interv iew to a newspaper or a publication called
Većernje Novosti, in which you stated that one of the officers, Colć, also known as
Legija, would be the second in command, that was an error was it?
MMI.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I could have stated nothing of the kind
because it had never been planned for Legija to be an officer in the gendarmerie.
Ms KORNER: Legija, can we just get this straight, was the nickname for a man who went
by the name of Milorad Luković and Milorad Ulemek, among others, is that right?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: He also had other names that he used in
his original Croatian passport, for instance, Vukmanović, Cema, and so on and so forth.
Ms KORNER: We are going to look in a moment, because we can see you knew quite a lot
about him but it is right, is it not, that he was a paramilitary who began his career as a commander
in Arkan’s Serb volunteers?
MI. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I can correct you some there. After
escaping from the Foreign Legion, he first began as a volunteer in some volunteer units and later
joined the units of Arkan.
Ms KORNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Mihajlovi ć. As I said, I thought you knew quite
a lot about him. And you knew quite a lot about Arkan himself, did you not? - 22 -
MMIH.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Actually, Arkan was not at all a subject
of my interest because, when I became Minishe had already been murdered, so that I did not
actually address myself to the question of Arkan very much.
Ms KORNER: Are you saying that you had no connections with Arkan?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: I never even had occasion to meet him.
Ms KORNER: All right. In 2005 did you write a book called Problems, Mists and
Horizons?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Yes, I did.
Ms KORNER: In two volumes, running to over, I think, 1,000 pages.
MIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : There will be more where that came
from.
Ms KORNER: And I’m not going to ask you a bout all of those thousand, and some, pages,
but I want to ask you about some of the things that you said. We have for you a marked copy in
your own language ⎯ it’s a photocopy ⎯ we also have a copy in English and in Serbian for the
other side.
Could you look please at the first marked passag e which is on page 21, where you talk about
Legija; it should be marked for you. You said
“I do not count Milorad Ulemek who is chieftain of the specialists of the
Department of State Security of the Ministry of Interior of Serbia, brilliant actor, who
is capable of playing many roles at the time. On the first meeting he superbly
played the role of top loyal professional on whom you can count on in any moment.
Today, we know that beside that rolehad other spare roles as well. He certainly
has them even today.”
My simple question is, what other roles?
MIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I was referring to his roles which
reflected in the fact that today he is sitting in the central prison in Belgrade as the person charged
with different crimes: first the politime of the attempted murder of VukDraškovć, the
former leader of the Serbian opposition, which took place on the Ibarska highway and also as the
person charged with the murder of the former Pr esident of the Republic of Serbia, Ivan Stamboli ć,
and the person charged with the murder of the fo rmer Prime Minister of the Republic of Serbia,
Mr. Zoran Djindjić. - 23 -
On 5October we brought down Mr.Miloševi ć, but we did not change the system; we
inherited the criminal legacy of the Miloševi ć era and Legija was part of that criminal legacy that
we did not manage so quickly to get rid of.
Ms KORNER: Could you look please now at a small passage marked for you, page 326.
You said there, is this r⎯ you were talking about the military call⎯: “not even one
member of New Democracy belonged to any of the volunteer, paramilitary or para-police
formations which mainly caused problems even to the regular army in performance of their tasks”.
And you describe about stories of the battlefields and then you say “the regular military units
were not making problems” ⎯ do you see that?
And when you describe some of the stories th at you had been told had been happening, you
said this: “What would happen to me if I had seen with my own eyes a child roasted in the oven, a
pregnant woman impaled with a child from toapart intestines?” These were stories you had
heard, were they?
MMIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : These stories that I had heard mainly
concerned Serbian victims.
Ms KORNER: The baby in the oven, as far as you understood, was a Serbian victim?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Yes.
Ms KORNER: Can you move then, because we are running short of time, to page 451 where
you talked about Jovica Stanišić. You said, I do not agree with what he was doing for Miloševi ć’s
politics in Croatia and Bosnia. What was he doing for Milošević in Bosnia?
MMIH. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : Well, Miloševi ć you can take as being
referred to here conditionally. The question is wh at he was doing there for the service that he was
head of and for the State to which he belonged?
Ms KORNER: The question was, what was Stanišić doing in Bosnia?
MMIH.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I will tell you. War was raging on the
borders of Serbia and it was only normal for tate security service, that of the Republic of
Serbia to be collecting intelligence on that war. - 24 -
SMtn.iši ć, according to stories, was a very good intelligence officer and he was very good
at his job and he kept Mr.Miloševi ć very well informed from the aspect of the intelligence
information on the events that were taking place on that particular territory. But that activity of his
could perhaps have given rise to a sort of impression that I myself did not agree with because I
belonged to an option that was pursuing a different policy, and that policy had, for its objective, the
stopping of the war and the securing of peace on the borders of our country.
Ms KORNER: Very simply, because I have got ve ry little time left and I want to . . . You
are saying that it could have given the impression that Staniši ć was involving himself in the affairs
of Bosnia.
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: No, but that he was doing his job, which
was collecting intelligence and information thatwas from the intelligence aspect of relevance of
interest to the security service of Serbia.
The PRESIDENT: I think you are coming to the very end?
Ms KORNER: I understand that, Madam Preside nt. Can I do it this way? There are two
passages more that I would like to put to him. I can tell the Court that the cross-examination of the
next witness will be very, very short indeed. If I ca n take some of the time from that to add to this,
because this is important.
The PRESIDENT: I think there still remains an i ssue of parity of the parties as regards this
witness. You have one more question.
Ms KORNER: Could you turn please, and this is in the second volume of your writings, to
pages76 and 77, where you spoke about Arkan. What you said was this, was it not? “To me
personally never was clear the connection a nd exceptional closeness of Slobodan Miloševi ć and
Željko Ražnjatović. [In other words, Arkan.] I knew Arka n but I never was close to him. Upon
the order of Slobodan Miloševi ć, I helped Arkan in channelling into legal flows one part of his
business activities related to health treatment of w ounded members of his guard . . .” Then you go
on to talk about after his assassination, Slobodan Miloševi ć called you and asked you to do
something in relation to his son. - 25 -
You are saying there, are you not, Mr. Mihajlović, that effectively you are money laundering
for Arkan? Upon the orders of Slobodan Milošević?
MIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : I hope that the distinguished Madam
President and the honourable chambe r will have a chance to see the text of this part of my book,
and this particular statement, for themselves so th at they can see that this is a statement made by
RadomirMarkovic, the former Chief of the Secu rity Service of Serbia, which he gave to
investigating organs, and I only took over and publis hed it in my book. This is something which
the other side is attributing to me, but I only pub lished it in my book in order to precisely illustrate
the criminal legacy that we inherited and had to grapple with.
The PRESIDENT: This is now at a conclusion, Ms Korner, thank you. Mr. Brownlie, do
you wish to re-examine.
Mr. BROWNLIE: I do have one or two questions. First of all, Mr. Mihajlovi ć, can you
confirm to the Court that decision making inRepublika Srpska, both political and military, was
independent of decision making in Belgrade?
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: It was general knowledge that the Serbs
in Bosnia and Herzegovina had their authentic politic al parties, State organs and army and all their
decisions were autonomous, as I have already said,and independent of Be lgrade, in fact, often
contrary to decisions taken in Belgrade and often in opposition to the positions of both Miloševi ć
and of Dobrica Ćosić, the latter being an even greater authority among the Serbian people there. I
believe that that story is associated with these volunteers who took part in the conflict in Bosnia
and Herzegovina and who came from Serbia. In that connection I can say the following: that it is
general knowledge that Serbs and Mu slims lived together side by side in the former Socialist
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and that they both were constituent peoples in Bosnia and
Herzegovina in their joint republic. And, when the civil war broke out , after the secession of
Bosnia and Herzegovina from Yugos lavia, contrary to the will and without any say on the part of
the Serbs there, who wanted Bosnia and Herzegovina to remain part of Yugoslavia, there was no - 26 -
preventing the Serbs in Serbia, hailing from Bosnia and Herzegovina, from coming to the
assistance of their brethren in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
The PRESIDENT: I would like the witness to understand that he is at this stage confined to
responding to the question that Mr. Brownlie has put . So, probably now it is for Mr. Brownlie to
put his next question in re-examination.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Thank you.
MMIr.AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian]: Well, I just wanted to explain, if you will
allow me, that this association is actually rootthe fact that Bosnia and Herzegovina at that
time was actually full of volunteers on all sidesthere were volunteers, for example, as the
mujahedin from Afghanistan who fought alongside th e Muslims, or there were the Croatian army
and the HVO units who fought with the Croats, and there were also various volunteer uni⎯s
Bosnian Serbs originating from Bosnia who fought alongside the Bosnian Serbs.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Madam President, I can close this quite quickly now, because he has
already moved on to the subject of volunteers. Is it correct that the question of volunteers within
Republika Srpska was the subject of legislation? If he could just say “yes” or “no”.
MIr. AJLOVI Ć [interpretation from Serbian] : Well, I am not familiar with the
regulations and the legislation in Republika Srpska, so I simply cannot . . . I know that there was
legislation that regulated the issue of volunteers joining the Yugoslav army.
Mr. BROWNLIE: Madam President, that concludes the examination. Thank you.
Ms KORNER: We have checked and he was right. He was quoting in the book. It is
difficult with the translation to worout, but he was quoting what Rade Markovi ć had to say.
And I think it is entirely right that you shknow that it was not him: he was quoting what
somebody else said.
The PRESIDENT: The Bench appreciates that clarification.
The Court will now retire but the Parties and the witness should remain in the vicinity of the
Great Hall of Justice. If the Court wishes tose questions to the witness, it will return to the - 27 -
courtroom within the next 15minutes. If the C ourt does not wish to put any questions to the
witness it will not return to the courtroom and the Registry will inform the Parties and the public
accordingly. I wish to inform the Parties that, in either case, the Court will next meet at 3 p.m. to
hear the next witness called by Serbia and Monten egro. The next witness will not be heard this
morning. The Court now rises.
The Court rose at 11.40 a.m.
___________
Public sitting held on Monday 27 March 2006 2006, at 10 a.m., at the Peace Palace, President Higgins presiding